【观点】中国上市公司协会会长、中国企业改革与发展研究会会长宋志平：能逆势赚到钱的企业，具有哪些核心竞争力？

中国经济告别持续三十多年的高歌猛进，正在经历从求速度到求质量的“换挡”，叠加三年新冠疫情，令不少习惯了高增长的中国企业倍感不适。但世界级的大企业中，许多恰恰崛起于危机年代。在宏观经济承压的当下，什么样的中国企业更有潜力逆势突围，并积攒持续的竞争力？

中国已连续数年成为《财富》世界500强榜单上榜公司数量最多的国家，但对中国榜上企业“大而不强”的批评也从未停歇。企业的做大（规模）与做强（效益）究竟是何种关系？两者间存在矛盾吗？

在最近的广州《财富》世界500强峰会上，《财富》上海执行主编王昉与中国上市公司协会会长、中国企业改革与发展研究会会长宋志平就这些问题展开了对话。CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

有40年央企领导人生涯的宋志平被称作“中国的稻盛和夫”。他成功将两家中国企业——中国建材集团和国药集团——带入世界500强，对企业管理和创新有着深入思考，出版了《经营心得》、《再造卓越》、《三精管理》等多种著作。

以下为编辑后的访谈实录：

Q1：宋志平先生，你曾带领两家中国企业进入《财富》世界500强，在执掌中国建材的18年间，你让它的年收入从20亿元翻了200倍，增长到 4000亿元。你也说过，没有不赚钱的行业，只有不赚钱的企业。能否给我们掰开说一说，那些能穿越经济周期赚到钱的企业，究竟具备哪些核心竞争力？

中国上市公司协会会长、中国企业改革与发展研究会会长宋志平：学者们可以把核心竞争力讲得很复杂，我讲就很简单，核心竞争力就是企业领先的能力。过去这几年，在经济的变化过程中，每个行业中都有活不下去的，但也都有做得很好的，做得很好的企业都具备很强的核心竞争力。

举个例子，茅台就是一家很有竞争力的企业。首先，它的产品有独一无二的品质；第二，它的品牌非常强大；第三，它有牢固的客户群；第四，它的文化渗透力很强；第五，它的价值创造能力很强。茅台上市只融过一次资，融了22.44亿元，而这么多年，它分红2000多亿元，现在市值高达2.3万亿元。从它的例子我们可以看到，核心竞争力是多项专长的一个组合。

再比如宁德时代，动力电池技术是它的核心竞争力，但又不止这一点，它在管理上做到了极限制造。过去我们说六个西格玛，就是要把产品缺陷率控制在百万分之一，但是宁德时代要把缺陷率控制在十亿分之一。为什么要这么极限？因为它的生产规模很大，而它要确保每个电池都不要发热、不要燃烧。我去看了它的生产线，它的AI生产线600米，上面有3000个控制点，每 1.7秒钟生产一个电芯，20秒生产一个模组，2分半钟生产一个电池包，要确保这么大规模的生产不出问题，它确确实实有它的核心竞争力。CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

Q2：总结一下，一家公司在技术、产品、品牌、管理，或者是这些因素的组合上，都可以实现某种核心竞争力。我下一个问题关于创新。你对创新有过深入研究，认为创新也是讲时机的，创新太早可能成为“烈士”；而且创新也有很多种，不一定非得是高科技的创新，也可以是集成式创新、零科技创新。中国经济已经告别高速增长，进入到较为缓和的、更重质量的发展阶段，现在是创新的好时机吗？企业应该做什么样的创新？

中国上市公司协会会长、中国企业改革与发展研究会会长宋志平：我觉得现在是一个创新的好时机，因为创新有时候是倒逼出来的，如果你的日子非常好过，每天在那儿数钱，你可能不再去创新。现在强调得比较多的是科技创新，但创新有各种方式，它本质就是要素的新的组合，可能有科技的要素，但也可能是把其他要素组合起来，形成了从来没有过的新产品、新服务。

比如今天也在座的广汽，它很好地处理了创新上的一种两难，就是在持续性创新和颠覆性创新之间的平衡。这体现在两个层面上：一是，它既有传统的燃油车，但又做了埃安电动车；二是，它既有和本田、丰田的合资车厂，同时又要做自主品牌。广汽在两个层面上都平衡得不错。

相似的一个例子是日本丰田。丰田最开始是不做电动车的，做的是氢燃料汽车，现在决定也要做电动车，甚至把电动车放在了首位。但丰田去年在全球销了900多万辆燃油车，今年会再加100万辆，销量超过1千万辆，它依然是世界汽车销量最大的企业。在电动车风起云涌的时代，丰田怎么还能把燃油车做得这么好？产量、销量还能提高？我觉得它也有硬功夫。CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

今天大多数企业都面对这种创新的两难，既要做渐进性的持续创新，把老产品继续做好，又要做颠覆性的创新，否则你自己就可能被技术和竞争对手颠覆。

与此同时，创新又不只是技术上的创新。比如今天在座的广新控股，原来做贸易，这几年转向做产业，年收入从前几年的600亿元增长到2000多亿元，进入了世界500强。它做的其实就是发展模式上的创新，走了混合所有制的道路，盯住一些非常好的产业投资，不懂不投、不混不投、不控不投，一下子飞跃成为广东省属第一家进入500强的国有企业。所以创新不仅有高科技创新，也有中科技、低科技创新，也有商业模式的创新。

Q3：每年《财富》世界500强榜单发布后，都会引发很多议论。我们经常听到的一种评价是，这是一个“大而不强”的榜单。现在有做大、做强、做优三种不同的讲法，大关乎规模，强关乎效益，优关乎创新能力。它们可以共存吗？存在冲突吗？

中国上市公司协会会长、中国企业改革与发展研究会会长宋志平：这个问题提得非常好。我们衡量宏观经济的指标叫GDP，以前有人批过“唯GDP论”，但实际上今天我们还是在谈GDP。刚才广州的孙志洋市长讲到，广州市去年的GDP是2.88万亿元，假定他不谈这件事，我们怎么知道广州的经济规模呢？我们现在有24个城市的GDP超过万亿级，57个城市超过5千亿元。CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

在衡量微观经济、也就是企业时，28年前，《财富》杂志创造出一种评价方式，用销售收入来评选世界500强，一直到今天。这没有什么错误，因为企业规模效益是衡量企业的一个重要指标。

我觉得，“大、强、优”是不可分割的一个整体，不能一个一个单拎出来说。企业的成长就像小树要长高、长粗，还要硕果累累、繁花似锦，这都是连在一起的。

1995年《财富》开始评世界500强榜，次年，中国大陆包括香港上榜企业只有4家。到2000年，美国有179家，日本有107家，中国大陆包括香港只有10家。而大家看今年，我们有142家，其中大陆包括香港有135家，美国是136家，日本是有41家。透过榜上排名的变化，你能够知道世界各国企业发展的状况，它是一个晴雨表。世界500强每年的出炉，实际上也激励着很多企业的发展壮大，它是个好事情，不能把这个事情说成一个坏事情。《财富》评选世界500强的工作会促进各国企业的成长，这是很有感召力的一个榜单。CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

我同意大的企业要做强还要做优，但不能说到做强做优时，掉过头来妄自菲薄。本来这些年我们快速成长到了这样的规模，非说它是一件坏事，我认为得不出这个结论来。

王昉：刚才我在台下看到一张非常有历史意义和价值的照片，照片中你捧着两张《财富》世界500强证书。你见证了中国企业在这个榜单上不断壮大的全过程。每一个危机时代，都会诞生出伟大的公司，我们熟知的可口可乐和底特律造车三巨头都崛起于第二次世界大战期间。希望眼下这个时代也正在孕育中国的下一波世界500强企业。

翻译：

Song Zhiping, President of the China Association of Listed Companies and President of the China Enterprise Reform and Development Research Association: What are the core competitiveness of enterprises that can make money against the trend?
China’s economy has bid farewell to more than 30 years of rapid progress, and is undergoing a “shift” from speed to quality, combined with three years of COVID-19, which has made many Chinese enterprises accustomed to high growth feel uncomfortable. But many of the world’s biggest companies emerged during the crisis. In the current macroeconomic pressure, what kind of Chinese enterprises have more potential to break out of the trend and accumulate sustainable competitiveness?

China has been the country with the largest number of companies on the Fortune Global 500 list for several years in a row, but the criticism that Chinese companies on the list are “big but not strong” has never stopped. What is the relationship between the bigger (scale) and the stronger (benefit) of the enterprise? Is there a contradiction between the two?CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

At the recent Fortune Global 500 Summit in Guangzhou, Wang Fang, managing editor of Fortune Shanghai, held a conversation on these issues with Song Zhiping, president of the China Association of Listed Companies and president of the China Enterprise Reform and Development Society.

Song Zhiping, who has led state-owned enterprises for four decades, has been called “China’s Kazuo Inamori”. He has successfully brought two Chinese enterprises – China National Building Materials Group and Sinopsin Group – into the world’s top 500. He has deeply thought about enterprise management and innovation, and has published many books such as “Business Experience”, “Reinventing Excellence” and “Three Fine Management”.

The following is an edited transcript of the interview:

Q1: Mr. Song Zhiping, you have led two Chinese companies into the Fortune Global 500, and in 18 years at the helm of China National Building Materials, you have increased its annual revenue from 2 billion yuan to 400 billion yuan by 200 times. You also said that there are no unprofitable industries, only unprofitable businesses. Can you give us a break to say that those companies that can make money through the economic cycle have what core competitiveness?

Song Zhiping, President of the China Association of Listed Companies and President of the China Enterprise Reform and Development Research Association: Scholars can talk about core competitiveness very complicated, I will talk about it very simple, core competitiveness is the ability of enterprises to lead. In the past few years, in the process of economic changes, there are people in every industry who cannot survive, but there are also companies that are doing well and doing well that have strong core competitiveness.CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

Moutai, for example, is a very competitive enterprise.

First of all, its products have unique quality; Second, its brand is very strong; Third, it has a solid customer base; Fourth, its cultural penetration is strong; Fifth, its value creation ability is very strong. Moutai listed only once financing, financing 2.244 billion yuan, and over the years, it dividends more than 200 billion yuan, and now the market value is as high as 2.3 trillion yuan. From its example, we can see that core competence is a combination of several specialties.

For example, in the Ningde era, power battery technology is its core competitiveness, but it is more than that, it has achieved extreme manufacturing in management. In the past, we said six sigma, that is, to control the defect rate of the product in one million, but the Ningde era to control the defect rate in one billion. Why so extreme? Because it is produced on a large scale, it wants to ensure that each battery does not heat up and does not burn. I went to see its production line, its AI production line 600 meters, there are 3,000 control points, every 1.7 seconds to produce a cell, 20 seconds to produce a module, 2 minutes and a half to produce a battery pack, to ensure that such large-scale production does not go wrong, it really has its core competitiveness.

Q2: To summarize, a company can achieve a certain core competence in technology, products, brand, management, or a combination of these factors. My next question is about innovation. You have in-depth research on innovation, think innovation is also about timing, innovation too early may become a “martyr”; And there are many kinds of innovation, not necessarily high-tech innovation, it can also be integrated innovation, zero technology innovation. China’s economy has left high-speed growth and entered a more moderate, more quality-focused stage of development. Is now a good time to innovate? What kind of innovation should enterprises do?

Song Zhiping, President of the China Association of Listed Companies and President of the China Enterprise Reform and Development Research Association: I think now is a good time to innovate, because innovation is sometimes forced out, if you have a very good life and count money there every day, you may no longer innovate. Now more emphasis is on scientific and technological innovation, but innovation has a variety of ways, its essence is a new combination of elements, there may be scientific and technological elements, but it may also be the combination of other elements, forming new products and new services that have never been.CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

For example, GAC, which is also present today, has well handled a dilemma in innovation, that is. The balance between sustainable innovation and disruptive innovation. This is reflected in two levels: first, it has a traditional fuel vehicle, but also made an electric car; Second, it has joint ventures with Honda and Toyota, and at the same time it wants to do its own brand. Gac has struck a good balance on both levels.

A similar example is Toyota of Japan.

Toyota did not do electric cars at the beginning, did hydrogen fuel vehicles. And now decided to do electric cars, and even put electric cars in the first place. But Toyota sold more than 9 million gasoline-powered vehicles worldwide last year. And will add another million this year, to more than 10 million, making it the world’s largest automaker by sales. In the era of electric cars, how can Toyota still do so well with fuel cars? Can production and sales be increased? I think it’s got some hard work, too.

Most companies today face this kind of innovation dilemma. Both to do progressive continuous innovation, to continue to do the old product well. But also to do disruptive innovation, otherwise you may be disrupted by technology and competitors.CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

At the same time, innovation is not just technological innovation. For example, Guangxin Holdings, which is present today, used to do trade. But in recent years, it has turned to industry. Its annual income has increased from 60 billion yuan in previous years to more than 200 billion yuan. And it has entered the world’s top 500. What it does is actually innovation in the development model, taking the road of mixed ownership, focusing on some very good industrial investment, do not understand and do not invest, do not mix and do not control and do not invest, and suddenly leap to become the first state-owned enterprise in Guangdong Province to enter the top 500. Therefore, innovation is not only high-tech innovation, but also medium – and low-tech innovation, and business model innovation.

Q3: Every year after the release of the Fortune Global 500 list, there is a lot of discussion. One comment we often hear is that this is a “big but not strong” list. Now there are three different ways to make bigger, stronger and better, which are related to scale, strong and efficiency, and excellent and innovative ability. Can they coexist? Is there a conflict?

Song Zhiping, President of China Association of Listed Companies and China Enterprise Reform and Development Research Association: This is a very good question. We measure macroeconomic indicators called GDP, in the past, some people criticized the “only GDP theory”. But in fact today we are still talking about GDP. Just now, Mayor Sun Zhiyang of Guangzhou said that the GDP of Guangzhou last year was 2.88 trillion yuan. If he does not talk about this, how can we know the size of Guangzhou’s economy? We now have 24 cities with a GDP of more than one trillion yuan and 57 cities with a GDP of more than 500 billion yuan.CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

When it comes to measuring the microeconomy, that is, companies, 28 years ago, Fortune magazine created a way to rank the world’s 500 companies by sales revenue, which it continues to do today. There is nothing wrong with this, as economies of scale are an important measure of a business.

In my opinion, “big, strong and excellent” is an inseparable whole and cannot be singled out one by one. The growth of enterprises is like a small tree to grow tall, long and thick. But also fruitful and blooming, which are linked together.

In 1995, Fortune began to evaluate the World’s top 500 list, and the following year, only four companies from the Chinese mainland, including Hong Kong, made the list.

This year, we have 142 companies, of which 135 are in the mainland. Including Hong Kong, 136 are in the United States and 41 are in Japan. Through the changes in the rankings, you can know how the development of companies in the world, it is a barometer. The annual release of the world’s top 500, in fact, also encourages the development and growth of many enterprises. It is a good thing, can not be said to be a bad thing. Fortune’s ranking of the World’s top 500 works to promote the growth of enterprises in various countries, which is a very inspirational list.CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

I agree that large enterprises should be stronger and better. But they should not turn around and belittle themselves when it comes to being stronger and better. If it is not a bad thing that we have grown to such a size so quickly over the years. I don’t think we can draw this conclusion.

Wang Fang: Just now I saw a very historic and valuable photo in the audience. In which you were holding two Fortune Global 500 certificates. You have witnessed the growth of Chinese companies on this list. Great companies are born in times of crisis. And the three that we know as Coca-Cola and the Detroit automakers both emerged during World War II. Hopefully, this era is also breeding the next wave of Fortune 500 companies in China.

本文由CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）转载而成，来源于CEO訪談网；编辑/翻译：CXO UNIONCXO联盟小宁檬。

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