【访谈】超级猩猩创始人跳跳：行业没有秘密，用十年建立壁垒

成立十年，没有变成自己不欣赏的样子。

在与记者对话三个小时前，超级猩猩创始人、CEO跳跳（本名刘舒婷）刚刚结束了为期三天的沙漠徒步，又在采访前一天坐了一整晚的车。但她身上热腾腾的激情和能量仍然扑面而来，让人很难忽略。

超级猩猩做的就是“点燃人的生意”，她告诉记者。还有用户把这个健身品牌称作“无酒精版夜店”。

在当下保持这样一份热情并不容易。

在国内，素有“反人性”之称的健身是一门分散、笨重、发展缓慢的生意。美国健身人口渗透率接近30%，中国只有3%。2023年，有20%的健身房消失了，几年前火热的团操课也不再是一门性感的生意。被称为“团课天花板”的健身品牌Space在5月份闭店清盘，Keep在2018年推出的线下运动空间Keepland正在大幅收缩。

行业遇冷，超级猩猩的开店步伐也逐渐缓慢。去年，跳跳在一次对外直播时表示，“暂无新开团操课门店的计划”。

更大的问题发生在内部。作为超级猩猩核心资产的教练接连流失，在社交平台，关于教练学员“饭圈化”的讨论越来越多。 CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

在与记者的对话中，跳跳回应了这些质疑，同时承认，因为没有可对标的参照物，有些问题她也还在解题过程中，“至今没有答案”。

好在野心和热情还没有消失，超级猩猩也依然有“少年感”，没有变得“油腻和不在乎”。

10年前创立超级猩猩时，跳跳和她的合伙人没想过做到多大规模、公司能不能成功，他们的愿望是“这个世界因为有超级猩猩而变得不一样”。以“按次付费、不办年卡、专业教练、没有推销”为口号，他们首创性推地出按次付费的团操课模式。

过去10年来，超级猩猩从一开始的不被看好，发展成估值10亿美元、拥有220家店铺的健身品牌。同样面积下，超级猩猩的单店效率“大概是行业里优秀品牌的两三倍”。公司现阶段的最高优先级，是实现规模化盈利，让利润和现金流更漂亮。 CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

当然，跳跳还有更宏大的目标：实现万店规模，成为“世界级伟大品牌”。

以下为跳跳与记者的对话实录（节选，经编辑）：

一、不被嘲笑的梦想不配当梦想

Q：今年是超级猩猩十周年，刚成立时你希望超级猩猩成为一家什么样的公司，现在实现了吗？

跳跳：现在肯定已经超出了10年前的预期，我们创业时甚至不敢自称是一个创业项目。

一号创始人瓜瓜当时是一名建筑师，他发明了一个智能密码锁，没有卖出去。我就有一个很小的冲动，想把这个门锁给用了。我们想到的第一件事是做集装箱健身仓，把锁放在室外作为景观，最大支出就是交租金，没钱了就不再往里面贴钱。这件事就这样做起来了。 CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

一开始我们没想过对行业产生什么影响，也不确定能不能赚钱，甚至当时我们认为它百分百赚不了钱。超级猩猩活到今天，发展了10年，还是远超预期的。

Q：既然认定会失败，又是怎么发展到现在的？

跳跳：我一直相信一句话：不被嘲笑的梦想就不配被当作梦想。支撑我们走下去的，就是一小撮人内心的渴望和一点理想主义的追求。万一成功了呢？还是希望这个世界因为有超级猩猩而变得有点不一样。

超猩的第一个集装箱健身仓有一些好的部分，比如很有视觉冲击力，按次付费的模式创新。这些我们都保留下来了。

Q：超级猩猩要做一个“世界级伟大品牌”，达到什么标准才算？

跳跳：世界级伟大品牌就是能唤醒那些“无用的美好”。某些做法你短期内无法量化它有什么好处，甚至从财务角度看是负面的，但那个东西就是让你从内心觉得，真美好啊。 CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

Q：哪些公司符合这个标准？

跳跳：我觉得苹果这家公司就很美好。iPhone、iPad和MacBook这些产品，很多功能平时可能根本就用不到，但它就是这么神奇的出现了，真正做到了“Think Different”。

伟大品牌能区分开人类和工具，它们一直在追求定义人类美好精神价值的东西。

Q：你说超级猩猩已经足够“伟”，但不够“大”，“伟”体现在哪里？

跳跳：所有世界级伟大品牌都在某种程度上颂扬运动员精神，超越昨天的自己，永远在突破和挑战。健身行业不是所有公司都在做一样的事，超级猩猩从一开始就不是卖年卡的公司，我们要做的是陪伴所有运动员，也挑战自己成为运动员。当运动员精神成为内核时，公司天然就有“伟”的成分。

与其说大家是享受运动，不如说我们运动时爱上的是不断变好、闪闪发光的自己，所以我一直说我们做的是点燃人的生意，我们的 slogan 就是影响更多人。

二、很多问题找不到答案

Q：追求“伟大”过程中也会遇到实际问题，比如很多人说超级猩猩“偏爱老粉，忽略新人”。这些问题怎么解决？

跳跳：我有一句口头禅：出来混，最重要的是先出来。 CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

我们做按次付费健身时，行业里没人在做，我们要解决的问题在全世界都找不到答案，以我们的智慧大概率不会一帆风顺。即使抱着美好的愿望做每一件事，也可能事与愿违。

但我们因此不能就不出来做了。我们心中有个尺度，要看偏离的程度，偏离太多、真的感觉到痛，并且它确实不符合超级猩猩的味道时，你就会想好好解决它。

Q：实际要怎么做？比如有声音说学员和教练之间的关系饭圈化，情感粘性会带来复购率，但也会伤害品牌形象。怎么平衡？

跳跳：首先得定义饭圈文化是什么。如果某个教练因为个人魅力或业务能力有很多喜欢他的用户，我认为这不叫饭圈。

当我们不把用户和教练员当作工具或ID，而是活生生的人时，有些行为是可以理解的，比如我之前做建筑师时，跑马拉松就是吊着我的那口气。一个榜样确实会在某个阶段对你产生很大影响，你会对教练产生依赖感。这种行为我没办法去批判。 CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

我很愿意看到教练员和学员成为朋友，甚至有教练和用户结婚了，还有用户也成为优秀的教练，我觉得都是很好的事。你要说这就是生意，他们就是客户，我做不到这么冷漠。

但在这会不会给别人带来了不好的感受？我觉得有，可能还不少。这件事我也觉得很难解决，至今我们没有答案。我们只能选择自己认为更好的方式，设置一些红线，比如不能PUA学员、不能骗用户的钱。

数据不会说谎。我们整体复购率还是很可观的，有80%的用户增长来自口碑传播。如果对用户不好，用户不可能来复购。

Q：超级猩猩的客单价并不低，如何平衡价格和用户群扩张之间的矛盾？

跳跳：超级猩猩一节课确实不便宜，但用户往往希望选择交通便利的地方去健身。我可以租更便宜的店，但对用户来说就不够便利，这个成本很难省掉。另一部分是培养和管理教练员的成本，我们投入很多，也省不掉。

我一直很难回答一个问题：“为什么有的健身房门店面积比你们大、提供淋浴，算下来一节课价格和你们差不多，买课多还能更便宜？”但我们经营的一切前提，都是合理的利润率，我们一定要先实现盈利。我敢摸着良心讲，超级猩猩定价是非常合理的。 CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

我们也做了教练员分级，不同教练、不同时段的课程价格有差异。比如我最近正在考超级猩猩的动感单车教练，那我的课程不可能和最厉害的教练一个价。这也是精细化运营的结果。

三、先活着，再谈活得好不好

Q：你们有对标的公司吗？

跳跳：有很多。我们会学习海底捞的服务，华住和亚朵的标准化空间。但我们和所有公司都不一样，教练员文化、平衡标准化和温度感，只有我们在做。我希望超级猩猩的实践会成为其他企业学习的案例。

Q：之前提出10年内开出万店，但现在只有二百多家，万店还是你们的目标吗？

跳跳：“万店”这种表述就像“爱你一万年”一样，是个虚数，是不断去往上够的目标。

中国很多企业非常牛，阿里巴巴最开始说要做中国的eBay，但它的规模已经比eBay大多了。我们也想让全世界看看超级猩猩，提到它会说“Made in China，best of the world”。

而且我们也有一点运动员的胜负心。这个行业全球范围内最大的管理规模是5000多家，下一个量级不就是一万吗？我们想成为那个万。 CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

Q：中国市场能容纳一万家超级猩猩吗？

跳跳：国内泛健身房的数量是5万~10万，头部品牌如果达到20%的市占率，理论上是可以实现万店规模的。任何一个企业，哪怕是蜜雪冰城这种供应链标准的企业，开到1万家店也非常不容易，我们这种劳动密集型行业更是难上加难，但有可能实现。有一个三五年内实现不了的目标，反而会使组织更坚定一些。

Q：现在的开店节奏是什么样的，今年计划开多少家店？

跳跳：开店情况很稳健。第一季度开了14家店，今年计划新增50家。任何一家公司能维持每年20%~30%的增长就非常了不起。超猩现在有220家店，增长20%左右就是50家，这是一个比较好的节奏。我希望到3000家、5000家店的时候也是这样的速度。

北京、深圳等城市也关了一些门店，可能是租金签贵了，也可能是选址有问题。总之就是算出来经济账不好，及时止损。 CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

Q：眼下做大规模、实现规模性盈利和扩大品牌影响力，哪个优先级更高？

跳跳：实现规模性盈利最重要。先做强，再做大，两者发生冲突时先要里子。里子就是利润。首先要独立活着，再谈活得好不好。在开店质量和速度之间，我一定选择质量。

超级猩猩的平均单店收入、利润率和投资回收周期很好，每一家店都符合我们对利润率的要求。同样面积下，超猩的单店效率大概是行业里优秀品牌的两三倍。

Q：今年3月你们首次开放联营，为什么选择这个节点？

跳跳：希望把资产变轻。我们的核心能力是运营管理能力，前几年先做重，把直营店做到运营效率非常高、方差非常低，形成一套自己的SOP（标准流程），现在开始逐渐做轻，提供软性运营能力，找到其他硬件更好、空间更好的品牌做联营商。这是1+1>2的做法。

Q：会考虑上市吗？

跳跳：短期内不会。短期目标是让利润和现金流更漂亮，这个时间点上市是要花钱花时间的，还不如把时间精力花在让净利润率翻倍上。 CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

另外，现在AIGC这么火，超级猩猩能不能靠AIGC提高人效、提升组织效率，这也是我现阶段要考虑的。

四、花10年时间建立壁垒

Q：你说过超级猩猩是一家很“抠”的公司，员工差旅都按照最低标准来，还体现在哪些细节上？在哪些方面会花钱大方一些？

跳跳：不该花的钱最好一分不花，该花的钱也要讨价还价。我们会尽量控制成本，比如谈租金就希望租售比降到最低。

我们在品牌文化建设上花钱比较大方。一旦涉及发自内心在意的价值观和信仰时，即使付出很多经济代价，也还是会做。有些事情我们会讨论好久，还拉教练陪审团一起讨论投票。有时讨论结果是“没有结论”，花钱还浪费时间，但我们就是觉得很重要。

此外，我们花钱最多地方的就是教练管理体系，这是我们花10年时间，投入最多金钱去做的。

Q：有声音认为，将发展优质职业教练作为企业核心成本高、难复制，注定做不大，你怎么看？

跳跳：健身这个行业注定没办法靠外力和钱在短时间内爆发，它不是被催生出来的爆款。但这种靠人与人相互感染的生意如果做好了，增长是很稳健的。 CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

比如，疫情期间我们很多店铺不能营业，一解封营业额马上就恢复了，从零到百分百。拉长周期看，如果每年都保持规模增长，就像滚雪球一样，慢慢也会做到很大规模。这就是复利的力量。

Q：从去年开始超级猩猩有不少教练甚至明星教练离职，这对公司的冲击大吗？

跳跳：我们现在的流动率大约10%。我最关注的不是教练的流失率，而是他为什么走，出了什么问题。如果教练降薪走一定有问题，但如果是涨薪升职走的，那我们可能有点像黄埔军校。我没听说过任何从超级猩猩跳槽的教练是降薪的。

我更关注的一个数据是教练的“可惜离职率”（编者注：符合考核标准、主动离开的教练占比）和回流率。超级猩猩的可惜离职率不超过5%，这批教练里，有部分一年内也会选择回流。这个数据我是可以接受的。

Q：为什么会回流？

跳跳：我们观察到教练跳槽有两种情况。一种是健身俱乐部想挖走明星教练背后的用户，但大部分用户不会只follow一个教练，他们往往会去三四家门店，跟不同教练上不同的课，所以期望靠一个教练就把用户挖过去是不现实的。

还有一种情况是俱乐部想建设团队，把超级猩猩的教练员挖过去做员工培训。但超级猩猩的管理方法只在我们内部有效，因为有标准化的教练文化。比如，我们有教练六要素：个人形象、产品交付能力、动作技术呈现、教授能力、课堂沟通能力、表现力，有用户分，每半年还有一次“超猩高考”，理论知识不达标需要补考甚至下架课程。其他健身俱乐部没有这种教练文化，用行业黑话来说就是没有抓手，管理工具没办法落地。

Q：这是你们的壁垒吗？

跳跳：我认为是，整个行业只有我们在这么做。除了标准化的教练培养体系之外，我们还有一套数字化系统做支撑。比如，所有教室都有监控，会定期随机抽取上课视频，再分发给非本城市的评审师，像高考改卷一样打分，由评审告诉教练员哪些方面可以提升。 CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

Q：这并不是行业机密，担心有一天被对手模仿甚至超越吗？

跳跳：担不担心都没用。我们天天跟行业讲我们是怎么做的，但我发现这件事好像没有人想做。

五六年前，超级猩猩融资到C轮时，所有投资人都会问，你们的核心壁垒是什么？当时我老老实实地回答，超级猩猩没有壁垒，我们的商业模式是透明的，只要有人愿意做都可以做。我觉得当时我们赶上了一个“傻瓜窗口期”，最聪明的人都去了快速增长的行业，健身行业没人愿意来，就留给了我们这种笨人做。

但现在我们有壁垒了。我们的壁垒就是用10年时间培养出的2000多个教练员，这不是短期内可以快速学会的。

五、没有下牌桌已经很好了

Q：过去一年健身行业发生的最大变化是什么？

跳跳：过去一年，有一些很优秀的健身品牌死掉了，市场供给萎缩，用户需求还在。但我觉得什么变化也没发生，甚至健身行业野蛮发展的这20年也没什么变化，乐刻健身、超级猩猩、Keep，都是10年前就出道的公司，今天还是这三家，只不过规模都增长了。10年里还有别的规模大的品牌吗？没有了。

Q：行业格局很分散，跑出一家绝对头部公司还需要多少年？哪个品牌距离这个目标最近？

跳跳：健身行业格局一直比较分散，当我们解决完自己的问题之后，超级猩猩肯定是头部之一。超级猩猩面临的问题和行业格局没关系，是自己的效率问题。从10家店到100家店，只要做好成本管控、管好教练员、守好初心就可以，但问题是如何从100到1000，再到5000、1万家店。这和外部竞争没什么关系，需要靠提升内部管理效率来解决。

Q：成立十周年，公司有哪些新的业务和规划？

跳跳：我们经历了过去几年租赁非常火热的阶段，有些店铺租金签高了，租金又是成本中非常重要的一部分，所以今年调整了一些店铺，下很大决心要把租售比调下来，希望能控制在15%以内。

未来战略首先是向着世界级伟大品牌发展，保持利润率增长，还有提高组织效率。我觉得最牛的事情，就是门店数量增长10倍，除了教练和店长以外其他员工数量维持在150人左右。 CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

Q：你对超级猩猩最满意的是什么？

跳跳：发展到今天，这家公司还没有变得油腻和不在乎，依然有少年感。做到现在，我仍然不应酬，不喝酒，情商也不需要很高，但利润也还不错。超级猩猩到现在肯定不完美，但我依然由衷为它自豪，它还是个很酷的公司。我们依然相信自己在不断突破和挑战自己，再通过自己改变其他人和这个世界。

每天也都有不满意的地方，但这家公司就像我的亲生孩子一样，我不会因为它有什么问题就不爱它了。

Q：那你们的状态听起来还挺美好的。 CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

跳跳：对啊，所以你不觉得我精神很抖擞吗？可能超级猩猩10周年时跟其他公司比起来预算没有那么多，也不再像过去那样飞速增长，但它仍然很稳健，没有下牌桌，还有足够积蓄可以应对突发事件。我觉得这就已经很好了。我们一直说“要么酷，要么死”，它当然有一天可以是酷死的，但我太爱它了，真的不想让它死掉。

翻译：

Super gorilla founder Jump: The industry has no secret, with ten years to build barriers

Ten years after its establishment, it did not become what it did not appreciate.

Three hours before speaking to reporters, Super Gorilla founder and CEO Hoppy (real name Liu Shuting) had just finished a three-day desert hike, and the day before the interview sat all night by car. But the hot passion and energy still came through her, and it was hard to miss.

What Super chimps do is “set people on fire,” she told reporters. Other users have described the fitness brand as an ‘alcohol-free nightclub’.

It is not easy to maintain such enthusiasm in the moment.

In China, fitness, known as “anti-humanity”, is a fragmented, cumbersome and slow-developing business. The penetration rate of fitness population in the United States is close to 30%, and only 3% in China. By 2023, 20% of gyms have disappeared, and the hot group exercise classes of a few years ago are no longer a sexy business. The fitness brand Space, known as the “group class ceiling”, closed its doors in May, and Keepland, the offline sports space launched by Keep in 2018, is shrinking significantly.

The industry is cold, and the pace of super orangutan opening is gradually slow. Last year, Hopps said in a live broadcast that “there is no plan to open a new group exercise class store.”

The bigger problem is internal. As the core assets of super orangutans, coaches are losing one after another, and on social platforms, there is more and more discussion about the “rice circle” of coach students. CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

In a conversation with reporters, Hopps responded to these doubts, while admitting that because there is no reference to the target, some questions she is still in the process of solving, “so far no answer.”

The good news is that ambition and enthusiasm have not disappeared, and the super gorilla still has a “sense of youth” and has not become “greasy and indifferent”.

When she founded Super Gorilla 10 years ago, Hopps and her partners didn’t think about how big it would be or whether the company would succeed. Their hope was that “the world would be different because of Super Gorilla.” With the slogan “Pay per view, no annual card, professional coach, no sales promotion”, they pioneered the pay-per-view group exercise class model.

Over the past decade, Super Gorilla has grown from an underdog to a $1 billion fitness brand with 220 stores. Under the same area, the efficiency of a single store of Super Gorilla is “about two or three times that of the best brands in the industry.” The highest priority of the company at this stage is to achieve scale profitability and make profits and cash flow more beautiful.

Of course, Hopps has a more ambitious goal: to achieve the scale of 10,000 stores and become a “world-class great brand.” CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

The following is a transcript of the conversation between Hopps and reporters (excerpts, edited) :

jump

1. Dreams that are not laughed at do not deserve to be dreams

Q: This year marks the 10th anniversary of Super Gorilla. What kind of company did you want Super Gorilla to be when you founded it?

Jump: It’s definitely beyond what was expected 10 years ago, and we didn’t even dare call ourselves a startup when we started. CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

One founder Guagua, who was an architect at the time, invented a smart combination lock that didn’t sell. I have a small urge to use this door lock. The first thing we think of is to do container fitness warehouse, put the lock on the outdoor as a landscape, the biggest expenditure is to pay rent, no money will no longer put money inside. And so it was done.

At first, we didn’t think about making an impact on the industry, we weren’t sure if we could make money, and we even thought it wouldn’t make money at all. Super gorilla alive today, 10 years of development, is still far beyond expectations.

Q: How did you get to where you are now since you thought you would fail?

Hopps: I have always believed that a dream that is not laughed at is not worthy of being a dream. What supports us to go on is the desire of a small group of people and the pursuit of a little idealism. What if it works? Or maybe the world would be a little different with a super gorilla.

Super’s first container fitness bin has some good parts, such as very visual impact, pay per view model innovation. We kept all of that.

Q: What criteria does Super Gorilla need to be a “world great brand”?

Jump: The world’s great brands are able to awaken those “useless beauty”. Something that you can’t quantify in the short term, or even from a financial point of view, is negative, but it just makes you feel, in your heart, good. CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

Q: Which companies meet this criteria?

Hopps: I think Apple is a wonderful company. iPhone, iPad and MacBook products, many functions may not be used at all, but it is so magical to appear, really do “Think Different”.

Great brands distinguish between people and tools, and they are always pursuing what defines the good spiritual values of humanity.

Q: You said that the super gorilla is “big” enough, but not “big” enough, where is “big” reflected?

Jump: All the world’s great brands celebrate sportsmanship to some extent, going beyond yesterday’s self, always breaking and challenging. Not all companies in the fitness industry are doing the same thing, Super Gorilla was not a company to sell annual passes from the beginning, what we do is to accompany all athletes and challenge ourselves to be athletes. When the sportsmanship becomes the core, the company naturally has a “great” component.

Instead of saying that people enjoy sports, we fall in love with the ever-better and sparkling self when we do sports. Therefore, I always say that what we do is a business that ignites people, and our slogan is to influence more people. CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

2. Many questions cannot be answered

Q: There are also practical problems in the pursuit of greatness, such as the fact that many people say that super orangutans “prefer old fans over new ones.” How to solve these problems?

Jump: I have a mantra: Come out, the most important thing is to come out first.

When we do pay-per-view fitness, no one in the industry is doing it, and the problems we have to solve can not be found in the world, and the probability that our wisdom will not be smooth sailing. Even if you do everything with good intentions, it may backfire.

But we can’t stop doing it. We have a measure in mind of how much of a deviation there is, and when it’s too much, it really hurts, and it really doesn’t taste like a super gorilla, you want to fix it.

Q: How does it actually work? For example, it is said that the relationship between students and coaches is turned into a meal circle, and the emotional stickiness will bring the re-purchase rate, but it will also hurt the brand image. How to balance?

Hopps: First we have to define what the rice circle culture is. If a coach has a lot of users who like him because of his charisma or business ability, I don’t think it’s called a rice circle.

When we don’t think of users and trainers as tools or ids, but as real people, some behavior is understandable, like when I was an architect, running a marathon was the way I was hanging on. A role model does have a big influence on you at some stage, and you can develop a sense of dependence on the coach. I can’t criticize this kind of behavior. CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

I would like to see coaches and students become friends, and even coaches and users get married, and users also become excellent coaches, I think it is a good thing. You say it’s business, they’re customers, and I can’t be that cold.

But does it make people feel bad about themselves? I think so, maybe a lot. I also find it difficult to solve, and we have no answer yet. We can only choose what we think is better, and set some red lines, such as not PUA students, and not cheating users of money.

The numbers don’t lie. Our overall re-purchase rate is still very impressive, with 80% of our user growth coming from word of mouth. If it is not good for the user, the user is not likely to buy again.

Q: The customer price of Super gorilla is not low, how to balance the contradiction between price and user base expansion? CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

Jump: A Super gorilla class is not cheap, but users often want to choose a convenient place to exercise. I can rent a cheaper store, but it’s not convenient enough for users, and that cost is hard to avoid. The other part is the cost of developing and managing coaches, which we invest a lot in and can’t save.

I’ve always had a hard time answering the question, “Why is it that some gyms are bigger than yours, offer showers, and the price of a class is about the same as yours, but it’s cheaper to buy more classes?” But all the premise of our business is a reasonable profit rate, and we must achieve profit first. I’m sure, in all conscience, the Super Gorilla pricing is very reasonable.

We have also done the classification of coaches, different coaches, different periods of the course price is different. For example, I’m currently taking a test to be a spin instructor for Super Gorilla, so there’s no way my classes are going to match the price of the best instructor. This is also the result of refined operations. CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

3. Live first, then talk about living well

Q: Do you have any target companies?

Jump: Lots of them. We will learn Haidilao’s service, Huaju and Aduo’s standardized space. But we are not the same as all companies, the coach culture, the balance of standardization and temperature sense, only we do. I hope that Super Gorilla’s practice will serve as an example for other companies to learn from.

Q: Previously, you proposed to open 10,000 stores within 10 years, but now there are only more than 200. Is 10,000 stores still your goal?

Jump: “ten thousand shops” this expression is like “love you ten thousand years”, is an imaginary number, is constantly going to the goal of enough.

Many Chinese companies are very strong, Alibaba initially said that it would be the eBay of China, but its scale is already much larger than eBay. We also want the world to see the super gorilla and say, “Made in China, best of the world.” CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

And we also have a little bit of an athlete’s heart. The largest management scale in this industry worldwide is more than 5,000, and the next order of magnitude is not 10,000? We want to be that million.

Q: Can the Chinese market accommodate 10,000 super apes?

Jump: The number of domestic pan-gyms is 50,000 to 100,000, and if the head brand reaches 20% of the market share, it can theoretically achieve the scale of 10,000 stores. Any enterprise, even if it is a supply chain standard enterprise such as Mixue Ice City, it is not easy to open 10,000 stores, and our labor-intensive industry is even more difficult, but it is possible to achieve. Having a goal that can’t be achieved in three or five years makes the organization more determined.

Q: What is the current pace of opening stores, and how many stores are planned to open this year?

Jump: The shop is very healthy. Fourteen stores opened in the first quarter and 50 more are planned for this year. Any company that can grow 20 to 30 percent a year is remarkable. Now there are 220 stores, an increase of about 20% is 50, which is a better rhythm. I hope it will be the same when we reach 3,000, 5,000 stores.

Beijing, Shenzhen and other cities have also closed some stores, which may be that the rent is expensive, or there may be a problem with the location. In short, calculate the economic account is not good, timely stop the loss.

Q: At present, which priority is higher to do large-scale, achieve scale profitability and expand brand influence? CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

Jump: To achieve scale profit is the most important. Be strong first, then be big, and when the two conflict, first get inside. The bottom line is profit. First, live independently, then talk about living well. Between shop quality and speed, I must choose quality.

Super Gorilla’s average per-store revenue, margin, and payback cycle are good, and each store meets our margin requirements. Under the same area, the efficiency of a single store is about two or three times that of an excellent brand in the industry.

Q: You opened the joint venture for the first time in March this year. Why did you choose this node?

Jump: Want to lighten assets. Our core ability is the operation management ability. In the past few years, we first did heavy work, made the directly operated stores with very high operation efficiency and very low variance, and formed a set of SOP (standard process) of our own. Now, we begin to gradually make light work, provide soft operation ability, and find other brands with better hardware and better space to do associate business. This is 1+1>2.

Q: Will you consider going public?

Jump: Not anytime soon. The short-term goal is to make profits and cash flow more beautiful, and at this point in time to go public is to spend money and time, better to spend time and energy to double the net profit margin. CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

In addition, now that AIGC is so popular, whether super gorilla can rely on AIGC to improve human efficiency and improve organizational efficiency is also what I want to consider at this stage.

4. Spend 10 years building barriers

Q: You said that Super Gorilla is a very “cheap” company, employees travel according to the minimum standards, what other details are reflected in? Where will you spend your money more generously?

Skip: It is best not to spend any money that should not be spent, and to bargain for the money that should be spent. We will try our best to control costs, for example, when negotiating rent, we hope to reduce the ratio of rent to sale to the minimum.

We spend generously on building our brand culture. When it comes to values and beliefs that you deeply care about, you will do it even if it costs you a lot financially. We talk about some things for a long time, and we bring a jury of coaches together to discuss and vote. Sometimes the discussion is “inconclusive”, spending money and wasting time, but we just think it’s important.

In addition, what we spend the most money on is the coaching management system, which is what we spend the most money on for 10 years. CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

Q: Some people think that the development of high-quality professional coaches as the core of the enterprise cost is high, difficult to copy, doomed to do not do much, what do you think?

Jump: The fitness industry is doomed to be unable to rely on external forces and money in a short period of time to break out, it is not the explosion that was spawned. But this kind of business that depends on people infecting each other, if done well, growth is very healthy.

For example, during the epidemic, many of our stores were not open, and the turnover immediately recovered, from zero to 100 percent. Looking at the extended cycle, if the scale continues to grow every year, like a snowball, it will slowly achieve a large scale. That’s the power of compound interest.

Q: Since last year, Super Gorilla has had many coaches and even star coaches leave, which has a big impact on the company?

Bounce: Our current turnover rate is about 10%. My biggest concern is not the turnover rate of the coach, but why he left and what went wrong. If the coach takes a pay cut, there must be a problem, but if the coach gets a raise, then we might be a bit like the Whampoa Military Academy. I don’t know of any coach who’s taken a pay cut from Super Gorilla. CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

One of the data I pay more attention to is the “pity turnover rate” of coaches (editor’s note: the percentage of coaches who meet the assessment criteria and voluntarily leave) and the return rate. Unfortunately, the turnover rate of super gorilla is not more than 5%, and some of these coaches will choose to return within a year. I can accept this data.

Q: Why does it backflow?

Jump: We have observed two types of coach job hopping. One is that the health club wants to poach the users behind the star coach, but most users will not only follow one coach, they often go to three or four stores, with different coaches to take different classes, so it is unrealistic to expect to rely on a coach to poach users in the past. CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

There is also a situation where the club wants to build the team and poach Super Gorilla coaches for staff training. But the Super Gorilla management method only works within us because of the standardized coaching culture. For example, we have six elements of the coach: personal image, product delivery ability, action technology presentation, teaching ability, classroom communication ability, expression, there are user points, there is a “super college entrance examination” every six months, the theoretical knowledge is not up to standard need to make up the exam or even off the shelf course. Other health clubs do not have this coaching culture, in industry jargon is no grasp, management tools can not land.

Q: Is that your barrier?

Hopps: I think so. We’re the only ones in the industry doing that. In addition to the standardized coaching system, we also have a digital system to support it. For example, all classrooms are monitored, and regularly randomly selected class videos are distributed to reviewers outside the city, scoring them like college entrance examination papers, and the reviewers tell the coaches what aspects can be improved. CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

5. At the beginning of the business, the initial team worked in a rented house

Q: This is not an industry secret, worried about being imitated or even surpassed by rivals one day?

Hopps: It’s no use worrying. We talk to the industry every day about how we do it, but I find that this is something that no one seems to want to do.

Five or six years ago, when Super Gorilla raised its Series C, every investor would ask, What are your core barriers? At that time, I honestly replied that there are no barriers to super gorilla, our business model is transparent, and anyone who wants to do it can do it. I think we hit a “fool’s window” where the smartest people went to fast-growing industries, and no one in the fitness industry wanted to come, leaving it to idiots like us. CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

But now we have walls. Our barrier is to train more than 2,000 coaches in 10 years, which can not be quickly learned in a short time.

Five, not down the table is good enough

Q: What has been the biggest change in the fitness industry in the past year?

Jump: In the past year, some excellent fitness brands have died, market supply has shrunk, and user demand is still there. But I think nothing has changed, even in the 20 years of the savage development of the fitness industry, there is no change, Leke fitness, super gorilla, Keep, are 10 years ago the debut of the company, today is still these three, but the scale has increased. Are there other big brands in 10 years? No more. CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

Q: The industry pattern is very fragmented, how many years will it take to run out of an absolute head company? Which brand is closest to this goal?

Jump: The fitness industry has been relatively scattered, when we solve our own problems, super gorilla is definitely one of the heads. The problem facing the super gorilla has nothing to do with the industry pattern, but with its own efficiency. From 10 stores to 100 stores, as long as you do a good job of cost control, manage coaches, and keep the original intention, but the problem is how to go from 100 to 1,000, and then to 5,000, 10,000 stores. This has nothing to do with external competition and needs to be solved by improving internal management efficiency.

Q: What new business and plans does the company have for its 10th anniversary?

Bounce: We have experienced a very hot phase of leasing in the past few years, and the rent of some stores has been signed up, and the rent is a very important part of the cost, so we have adjusted some stores this year, and we are very determined to reduce the rent to sales ratio, hoping to control it within 15%. CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

The strategy for the future is first and foremost to develop a world-class brand, maintain profit margin growth, and improve the efficiency of the organization. I think the most impressive thing is that the number of stores has increased by 10 times, and the number of other employees except coaches and store managers has been maintained at about 150 people.

Q: What pleased you most about the Super gorilla?

Jump: To this day, the company has not become greasy and indifferent, still has a sense of youth. So far, I still don’t socialize, I don’t drink, I don’t need to be very emotionally intelligent, but the profit is not bad. Super Gorilla is definitely not perfect yet, but I’m still really proud of it, and it’s a cool company. We still believe that we are constantly breaking and challenging ourselves to change others and the world through ourselves. CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

Every day there are things I don’t like, but this company is like my own child, and I don’t love it just because there’s something wrong with it.

Q: Well, your state sounds pretty good.

Hopps: Yeah, so don’t you think I’m fresh? Super Gorilla may not have as big a budget as other companies at its 10th anniversary, and it’s not growing as fast as it used to, but it’s still solid, hasn’t left the table, and has enough savings to cover contingencies. I think that’s as good as it gets. We’ve always said “cool or die,” and of course it could be cool one day, but I love it so much I really don’t want it to die. CXO UNION-CXO联盟（cxounion.cn）

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